My trickster Illostan finally gets caught by Prince Temertain’s guards—he thinks he’s friends with “Temmy” and wants to give him more “presents”—and needs to Fast Talk to escape the situation. To improve his chances, he both casts the spell Clever Tongue and rolls an augment with his Harmony Rune (“No, I really am his friend!”).
Is the augment’s bonus applied before or after Clever Tongue doubles my Fast Talk rating?
Unwritten Rules is a series of blogs which explore (and attempt to explain) the rules structure of Chaosium’s RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha (RQG). My experience is that RQG‘s internal structure is robust and flexible, but sometimes needs additional description. This is less about “abstract design principles” and more about “hidden rules” underneath the printed text. The first article did a decent job of explaining the basic project, so just go check that out if you want more description of why I think this project is interesting.
Bonuses to Skills
The above example is basically a case in which we need to know the order of operations by which bonuses, multipliers, etc. are sequenced in RQG. This is kind of analogous to the same concept in arithmetic (when I learned it this was PEMDAS but I believe a different acronym is used now?). Don’t worry, it’s not actually that complex. All we really need to care about is when to do the multiplication.
An adventurer’s rating in a skill has three basic factors:
- Base Percentage: This is the flat value which all characters have—it’s usually presented in parentheses on the adventurer sheet and in the rulebooks.
- Experience: The additional points in the skill gained from adventurer creation, experience rolls, and so on.
- Skill Category Modifier: The bonus derived from the adventurer’s characteristics, which applies to all skills in the named category.
Together, these add up to the adventurer’s Total Skill.
Base (5%) + Experience 58% + Category modifier 20% = Total 83%
A game’s text doesn’t typically need this type of turbo-obsessive precision; I’m laying this out explicitly because I feel it’s useful when breaking down a concept or a process. Another term I’ll use is “Final,” to indicate the resulting skill rating after Total gets mucked with by modifiers.
When I first learned RuneQuest with a group playing a prior edition, I was taught to write Base + Experience on my character sheet, and then add Category when making my ability rolls during the game. This breakdown is helpful if characteristics go up and down frequently, but it leaves some questions open because “Base + Experience” feels like it’s being treated as “Total.” Then, Category is added atop Total. It becomes open to question whether Total or “Total + Category” is used for multiplying a skill with Clever Tongue, passing ability thresholds to become a Rune Priest, etc.
In RQG this is simplified by this edition’s order of operations. There’s some variation in the phrasing between the chapters, but I feel the Adventurer Creation chapter’s definition is most helpful:
Add the base chance to the appropriate skills category modifiers and to any [additional bonuses]. The result is the adventurer’s current percentage in that skill.
RQG p.60, emphasis mine.
So, the distinction between Total and Category is resolved. This is indeed a “written” rule. I wanted to point it out because, well, it’s a mistake I still make myself at times! I think it’s useful to be aware that Category is included within Total because that cleans up a lot of the potential sequencing challenges which can appear in RQG.
Most modifiers to Total are easy. They’re just addition or subtraction. We probably could create a full order of operations for rigorous sequencing, but since the math is all addition and subtraction I don’t think it would be useful. I also think any sequence I proposed would be fairly artificial. It would be going beyond the use of intuition and analysis to poke at the “unwritten” stuff I’m interested in; this would enter rules creation rather than explanation. These kinds of modifiers just aren’t given an internal structure by RQG as far as I can tell.
Now, how do we handle multiplication?
Our starting point is Total. If we’re given one multiplier—like Clever Tongue—then it’s easy. Multiply Total. Done.
Total 83% × 2 = Final 166%
Let’s say there’s a +20% modifier from an augment. Is that modifier multiplied? I don’t feel this is explicitly stated in RQG, but intuitively the answer is obviously “no.” Here’s the important part: why?
The answer is “no” because when sequencing modifiers, RQG always multiplies Total. This is our “unwritten rule:” other modifiers are never affected by a multiplier—just the base value. This is also why it’s helpful that Category is explicitly included within Total. Fewer questions!
Total 83% × 2 = Clever Tongue 166%
Clever Tongue 166% + Augment 20% = Final 186%
In the case of an augment this feels pretty straightforward. Our intuition helps us because Clever Tongue basically says “multiply the skill” rather than “multiply your everything.” An augment isn’t a skill, so naturally it can’t get multiplied by this Rune spell. However, the general principle is still useful because it applies across a variety of situations. For example, if Illostan is shooting an arrow at a guard leaning against a wall, he gets +40% to the shot because the guard is unaware (RQG 223). If Illostan somehow was under the effect of Arrow Trance, this +40% would not be doubled—only his Total would be doubled—despite this +40% not being as clearly some “other thing” to my intuition in the way that an augment is definitely some “other thing.”
I’m pretty sure this also applies to division. In the same section of the Combat chapter, RQG rules that someone on the ground has their “attack chance halved.” So let’s pretend Illostan’s got his comeuppance and another guard got the drop on him (don’t worry, my trickster totally deserves it). If Illostan’s trying to stab from the ground with his dagger, his Total rating for dagger is halved. But if that’s a magic dagger he stole off someone which gives +10% to hit, this bonus is not part of Total. It’s a bonus to the dagger skill, but it’s not part of Total so the penalty doesn’t halve Illostan’s skill.
Let’s look at one more example about skills. What if Illostan casts Glamour in the initial example, and then casts Clever Tongue?
The spirit magic spell gives +8 to its target’s CHA characteristic. This provides a “downstream” effect which includes an increase to all skills in the Communication category, including Fast Talk. Glamour typically increases skills by +10%, but the actual bonus depends on the CHA of the adventurer. Since Illostan’s CHA is 18, his CHA while affected by Glamour is 26 (which does indeed provide the typical +10%).
Glamour’s effect isn’t a bonus applied to Total. Instead, this spell improves skills by increasing the Category modifier. This changes Total from inside, not outside. Consequently, we use the new Total when multiplying due to Clever Tongue.
Base (05%) + Experience 58% + Category modifier (Normal 20% + Glamour 10%) = Total 93%
Total × 2 = Final 186%
Any additional modifiers (such as an augment, or a circumstantial penalty because Temmy’s guards are jerks) are then added or subtracted from this Final as usual.
Looking for an adventure as glamourous as Illostan? To Hunt a God has got you covered! It’s filled with sly spirits, scowling rivals, and a shaman who knows damn well that she’s a non-player character. One of my all-time favorites!
Bonuses to Characteristics
This “unwritten rule” also applies to characteristics. For example, if Illostan casts Glamour he gets +8 to his CHA. If he then casts Charisma to double his CHA, it’s only the Base which gets doubled—not the Final which includes Glamour’s modifier.
(CHA 18 × 2) + Glamour 8 = Final 44
However, that CHA 44 does affect Illostan’s Fast Talk skill when he’s using Clever Tongue. Just as above, the modified CHA is used as part of the calculation for his Total skill.
Base (05%) + Experience 58% + Category modifier (Normal 20% + Spells 30%) = Total 113%
Total × 2 = 226%
In the end, the little bastard has an 11% chance of rolling a critical success, and a 45% chance of rolling a special success! If his Fast Talk is used in an opposed roll, the opposition will have a –126% penalty to their ability roll per the rules for skills over 100%. Not too shabby for 2 Rune points and 2 magic points, eh? After all, every percentile counts when you’re stretching for a special success to get yourself out of a jam! Or better yet—a critical aimed Sling attack to take out that pesky Yelmalion invading your nice cold, dank cave…
Anyway, I hope this explanation is interesting and useful! It’s long, yes, but the principle itself is logical and easy to remember: multiply or divide the “normal” ability rating. I find keeping that in mind helps me process modifiers both as a player and as a gamemaster.
Until next week!
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I was immediately distracted at the setup: “To improve his chances, he both casts the spell Clever Tongue and rolls an augment with his Harmony Rune….” All guards that let people cast spells without at least trying to bonk them should be fired! Fast Talk yes, definitely! But spells without some Don’t Do That? Informative article, that point aside. Keep up the great work!
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Yeah, it may have been a wee bit intentional. 😅 That said, I do tend to think that some spells aren’t “obvious” in the way of most Rune magic. Well, primarily trickster spells. After all, how can someone get away with Lie if everyone knows you cast it?
Another approach would be that sure, you can cast Clever Tongue, but then it adds a circumstantial penalty (applied after the multiplication, naturally). My thinking here is that a Rune spell is basically instantaneous—the guards can’t prevent someone from casting one. But they can definitely have an opinion afterward!
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